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Thread: A Frank and Open Discussion...

  1. #1
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    Default A Frank and Open Discussion...

    Hello,

    I am new to these forums and, as above, I am looking to have open discussion with regards to several topics.

    Obviously there are many massive questions to be asked in this area, but this seems like the best place to start : Does God exist?

    I do feel that I have to qualify my intent and moderate the discussion by submitting my stance on the following, which I feel are absolute requirements to reasonable debate:
    Disproving Science - Recognising the inaccuracies and foibles that exist within the scientific community does not, in my view, justify the acceptance of a religious explanation
    Bible Text - Arguments utilising bible text as factors are essentially circular and, as such, I cannot accept them.
    Causal Argument - The concept that there is a requirement of a "first cause" is worth considering. However, this does not in itself justify the existence of a deity (Christian or otherwise).
    Obviously, I'm waiding into the deep end on my first thread, but I'm looking to get some honest points from what appears to be a reasonable community.

    Look forward to any responses!

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  3. #2
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    This is not exactly a response to your post - but another reference point for deciding what's real and what is not. Here is the "Baloney Detection Kit" with Michael Shermer. The Baloney Detection Kit was an idea started by Carl Sagan. A list of ten questions to ask when looking at different ideas.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUB4j0n2UDU

    The 10 Questions:
    1. How reliable is the source of the claim?
    2.Does the source make similar claims?
    3. Have the claims been verified by somebody else?
    4. Does this fit with the way the world works?
    5. Has anyone tried to disprove the claim?
    6. Where does the preponderance of evidence point?
    7. Is the claimant playing by the rules of science?
    8. Is the claimant providing positive evidence?
    9. Does the new theory account for as many phenomena as the old theory?
    10. Are personal beliefs driving the claim?

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  5. #3
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    To determine the existence of God, one must first classify exactly what they mean by "God". Until this can be extablished, this discussion is destined to go nowhere.

    I begin with my own interpretation:

    1. God is the proposition that there is something greater than the sum of human ability. To deny this possibility suggests the highest degree of arrogance. As long as we have something to learn, God will always be possible and in my opinion, inescapable.

    The forgoing definition is necessarily drawn from the scientific secular viewpoint. When one has a personal experience with the Lord Jesus Christ, no other explanation is necessary.

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  7. #4
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    it is like this
    either GOd does exist and is waiting for a certain group of persons to correctly call upon HIm and then He gives evidence of HIs existance to all the world
    or
    He does not yet exist
    but were a certain group of persons to all agree upon the very traits of what GOd were He to exist would be like and they all desired this 100
    % in both mind/soul and heart/willing spirit
    then He would come into existance and satisified the 10 questions
    how do you want it to be
    iamnothing0
    Last edited by adelpit346; 11-05-2010 at 10:09 PM. Reason: all is fluid

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  9. #5
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    Ya God Exists. He is everywhere. I do not know how much you have trust in him, but am having complete faith in him. Moreover i am sure here will be a day in your life when you start believing in GOD.

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  11. #6
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    When we all witness God, we'll know there is a God. The resurrection on the Mount of Olives will be the absolute final proof-in that day there shall be one Lord (one religion) and his name one. Every eye shall see him and they also which pierced him. God will reclaim the Kingdom and reign on earth forever-not 1000 years

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  13. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by window View Post
    Hello,

    I am new to these forums and, as above, I am looking to have open discussion with regards to several topics.

    Obviously there are many massive questions to be asked in this area, but this seems like the best place to start : Does God exist?

    I do feel that I have to qualify my intent and moderate the discussion by submitting my stance on the following, which I feel are absolute requirements to reasonable debate:
    Disproving Science - Recognising the inaccuracies and foibles that exist within the scientific community does not, in my view, justify the acceptance of a religious explanation
    Bible Text - Arguments utilising bible text as factors are essentially circular and, as such, I cannot accept them.
    Causal Argument - The concept that there is a requirement of a "first cause" is worth considering. However, this does not in itself justify the existence of a deity (Christian or otherwise).
    Obviously, I'm waiding into the deep end on my first thread, but I'm looking to get some honest points from what appears to be a reasonable community.

    Look forward to any responses!

    rmns 1:19-20 (Interlinear bible)
    ...because the things known of God clearly known is in them, for God to them revealed it. the for unseen things of God from the creation of world by the things made being realized, is being understood the both eternal of God power & Godhead; for to be them without excuse.


    standard theory is what conventional science presumes...i say 'presumes' because it is a collection of disjointed theories, hypothesis, assertions & etc. with some manipulated math at its foundation & quantum physics is a part of this presumption. the defense of this apparent disconnect is 'it's the best we got'. so there isn't argument against the fact that the separate aspects of 'standard theory" does not all flow/connect logically.

    i suggest perhaps perusing Mark McCutcheon's The Final Theory, Rethinking Our Scientific Legacy. Even if u don't agree with his explanations/solutions, his questions are valid. the 'electron suggestion' is part of Mark McCutcheon's Final Theory which attempts to unify the workings of the universe under a single logical all inclusive theory. i used the word 'suggested' because it is not mainstream & is typically dismissed as not falling under established theories, even though it seems to flows more logically than standard theory.

    To go any further i think it should b pointed out that the issue here is belief in a Supreme Being/Creator. In short, i shall share this with you & perhaps we may need to agree to disagree; i suspect many have had these discussions many times.

    Our science is based on cause & effect
    the current basic precedent then for any & all explanation is cause & effect
    mathematically 1 has to exist before 2
    we have accepted the effect of air even though it is invisible, tasteless & odorless
    we have the conceptual understanding of infinity via math
    we claim intelligence & claim it is associated with life & particular higher life forms
    mathematically speaking every whole set contains all aspects of its subsets & yet is not limited to the sum of those aspects
    therefore what/Whoever caused this existence/expanding universe as we know it & don't know it, must contain all the above attributes & more.
    terri a.

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